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Subject: [IP] more on SBC to raise DSL pricing 25-43% (unless you bundle)

  • From: David Farber <dave@farber.net>
  • To: Ip Ip <ip@v2.listbox.com>
  • Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 06:35:16 -0500



Begin forwarded message:

From: Bob Frankston <Bob19-0501@bobf.frankston.com>
Date: October 31, 2005 7:19:38 PM EST
To: 'Bill Williamson' <batkiwi@happychinchilla.com>, richard.wiggins@gmail.com
Cc: dave@farber.net, bobporter@theideasgroup.com
Subject: RE: [IP] more on SBC to raise DSL pricing 25-43% (unless you bundle)


Of course PPPoE is a strange thing -- it's based on some confused model of
the Internet. You run IP over ATM backhauled to some remote place where it
is then connected to the Internet via an ISP of your choice. In addition to
the physical billing channels, it's about virtual billing channels. You
can't let those packets roam free -- that would be too simple.


It's just like EV-DO -- it's an attempt to layer IP connectivity over an
obsolescent business model thus guaranteeing high costs and bounded
performance that defeats Moore's law. It's very hard to stay competitive if
you have all this gratuitous overhead.


Perhaps SBC and others think that all these costs are necessary because if
you over-define the problem you don't allow for efficient solutions. Even
worse if you know that your people know more about networking than the
amateurs without experience running phone networks you can convince
yourself that, indeed, those who haven't burdened themselves with all this
nonsense must be cheating.


Just think of what it costs to maintain a large building full of old
switching equipment vs replacing it with simple ATA's to convert analog
audio to IP and then adding a few routers.

How long can the marketplace tolerate this? Another year? Maybe ... maybe
not.



-----Original Message----- From: Bill Williamson [mailto:batkiwi@happychinchilla.com] Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 17:20 To: richard.wiggins@gmail.com Cc: dave@farber.net; Bob19-0501@bobf.frankston.com; bobporter@theideasgroup.com Subject: Re: [IP] more on SBC to raise DSL pricing 25-43% (unless you bundle)

I'll go even further and ask, is there a single ADSL provider in the US
who doesn't use standard PPPoE or PPPoA (if you have an integrated
gateway)?

I know when I had SBC, even after the yahoo merge, they provided you with
your username/password which you could use with any PPPoE modem or
software to get a straight connection. The &quot;activation&quot; software is
simply for people who don't know how to set things up, and they send a
&quot;self install&quot; sheet with the CD in case you do know how to set things up.



David Farber said:


Begin forwarded message:

From: Bob Porter <bobporter@theideasgroup.com>
Date: October 31, 2005 3:43:09 PM EST
To: dave@farber.net
Subject: RE: [IP] more on SBC to raise DSL pricing 25-43% (unless you
bundle)


Just a note about the issue of SBC installation mucking with your system, browser, and toolbar. None of that is necessary. I have had to reinstall my SBC DSl several times over the last year or two only too discover that you don't need their software to install their DSl at all. You only need their modem and set it to the correct username and password and you have IP to your machine or in my case to my router. I know that that is not how the install instructions read but it is so and I have nothing at all of SBC/Yahoo's installed on my computer. This all became obvious when trying to troubleshoot some connection issues after a complete reinstall of XP following a computer crash.

Bob Porter

,,.`.,,.`.


-----Original Message----- From: David Farber [mailto:dave@farber.net] Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 11:40 AM To: Ip Ip Subject: [IP] more on SBC to raise DSL pricing 25-43% (unless you bundle)



Begin forwarded message:

From: Bob Frankston <Bob19-0501@bobf.frankston.com>
Date: October 31, 2005 11:35:36 AM EST
To: 'Richard Wiggins' <richard.wiggins@gmail.com>, 'David Farber'
<dave@farber.net>
Cc: &quot;David P. Reed&quot; <dpreed@reed.com>
Subject: RE: [IP] more on SBC to raise DSL pricing 25-43% (unless you
bundle)


I basically get such an IPtone on my cable connections. I just plug
in and
that's that. Used to matter what IP address I used. My router (Dual WAN
Xincom) normalizes DSL to give me an IPTone.


To a large extent the requirement to run special software is borne of a
combination of cluelessness on the part of the carriers and an
attempt to
slip some marketware into your computer.


Ultimately the idea they are offering services leads them to
misinterpret
end-to-end as womb-to-tomb and view customers who want to take
responsibility for their own computing as cheating.

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Wiggins [mailto:richard.wiggins@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 11:12
To: David Farber
Cc: Bob2-19-0501@bobf.frankston.com
Subject: Re: [IP] more on SBC to raise DSL pricing 25-43% (unless you
bundle)

To my knowledge, NO mainstream residential broadband provider gives
you the straight &quot;IP dialtone&quot; that many consider ideal.

The SBC/Yahoo DSL installation process is unnecessarily long and
laborious and it mucks with your browser to rebrand it in their name
-- much more invasive than adding a toolbar.

In general it's been my impression that DSL providers are more prone
to do invasive things to your computer, but last week I had to do an
emergency installation of Comcast cable modem service (after the lawn
sprinkler installers cut our phone lines) and they required you to run
proprietary stuff to enable the service.  I had to do Windows registry
edits to remove their logo from IE.

Asking right now if SBC understands things better than AT&T is
deliciously ironic, given the merger and name change in progress.  :-)

/rich

On 10/31/05, David Farber <dave@farber.net> wrote:




Begin forwarded message:

From: Bob Frankston <Bob2-19-0501@bobf.frankston.com>
Date: October 30, 2005 10:09:20 PM EST
To: dave@farber.net, 'Ip Ip' <ip@v2.listbox.com>
Cc: 'Frank Muto' <info@ISPNETWORKS.ORG>
Subject: RE: [IP] SBC to raise DSL pricing 25-43% (unless you bundle)






What does it mean to bundle Yahoo anyway -- I get their toolbar installed as a &quot;favor&quot;? What other implications?

Does SBC understand connectivity any better than ATT did?






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