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Subject: [IP] more on re: 2029, A Worldwide Mesh?

  • From: David Farber <>
  • To:
  • Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 05:51:06 -0500

Begin forwarded message:

From: Bob Frankston <>
Date: December 4, 2005 12:42:03 AM EST
Subject: RE: [IP] more on re: 2029, A Worldwide Mesh?

I didn&#x2019;t respond the first message but the mention of 4G seems to be going in the wrong direction. The idea of connecting devices is of course very old. Even BSR X10 (originally to control their turntables) is in this category.

The problem with the &#x201C;4G&#x201D; framing is not the technology itself but in that misses the point of the Internet by increasing the coupling between system elements rather than reducing it. It makes great press since people can identify with gee whiz applications but it&#x2019;s not very different from the homes of the future we&#x2019;ve seen for decades with chatty toaster ovens.

We wind up with protocols that build in the application architecture such as Bluetooth and CEBus. And we give up control to the phone companies in trade for having them make the cellular phones do all sorts of wonderful things that we couldn&#x2019;t possibly do ourselves. Actually we can but that&#x2019;s too much of a threat to their control to be tolerated. 3G makes cellular calls billable whereas meshed VoIP would deny them our money.

One of the reasons I want to move beyond the DNS and IPv6 is to support light switches and other mundane devices. The devices need their own identities &#x2013; both logical and intrinsic. You don&#x2019;t really want to depend on an external registry in order to address your light switches. You also need to be able to set access and other policies so you could do something as simple as setting rules for sharing a light over a common driveway. Here too you need to avoid depending upon third party services for identity and vouching. Setting up interacting policies and trying to make them match our intent is a very difficult problem but it&#x2019;s not about the low level technologies, it&#x2019;s about system architecture and social issues.

For that matter, the lack of mobility is also a problem of policy and protocols. Speed is nice but getting any connectivity is the biggest step.

I have no problem with developing new technologies &#x2013; but I worry when we great new dependencies and confuse a communications mesh with a ball of knotted twine. The problem is not speed. You don&#x2019;t need 100mbps to connect your teapot to your toilet.

-----Original Message-----
From: David Farber []
Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 06:46
Subject: [IP] more on re: 2029, A Worldwide Mesh?

Begin forwarded message:

From: Rod Van Meter <>

Date: December 2, 2005 10:26:53 PM EST

To:, Thomas Leavitt <>

Subject: Re: [IP] more on re: 2029, A Worldwide Mesh?


[Dave, for IP, if you wish...]

2005-12-02 (&#x91D1;) &#x306E; 20:56 -0500 &#x306B; David Farber &#x3055;&#x3093;&#x306F;&#x66F8;&#x304D;&#x307E;



>> The &quot;world wide mesh&quot; will arrive in Asia about 2019,

How about a couple of months ago, here in Japan?  Your teapot and toilet

can already snitch on you via the Net, see


How much more ubiquitous do you need?  (I know, there's still a ton of

work to do, and many tons of equipment to manufacture, sell, and



>> In 2019, the average Asian &quot;broadband&quot; connection will exceed 100

>> mpbs,


Fixed or mobile?  I would guess that here in Japan the average *new*

installation is 100Mbps, today.  It'll be a few years before everybody

catches up, of course.

Mobile, a number of research groups planet-wide are working on 4G.  One

such is the Nakagawa Lab at Keio, supported in part by Nokia:

Prof. Nakagawa is working on Orthogonal Frequency Division Multiplexing

(OFDM), along with a variety of other things.  The roadmap they were

handing out yesterday at a Keio exhibition didn't have dates, but I

think 4G is generally targetted at 100Mbps.  I will be surprised if it

takes more than a decade to become available here.



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